Curse

Andrew_ · Dec 26, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Ahh, but they never corrected them! They certainly perpetuated the ruse. Yes, Saul did find them, not the other way around, but that doesn't mean they didn't set themselves out to be found. How else were they planning on suckering in the chosen?

You could really look at the Mursaat vs Titans in two different lights: Were they keeping the Titans at bay because they knew the Titans were destructive and would "end the world of men"? Or... is it because they themselves could not control/destroy the Titans and could end up being the only thing that could stop them?

Remember Villany of Galrath? Galrath was a White Mantle Knight who was trying to "break-in" to the floating castle down in Kessex. It is my belief that that is where Khilbron "lived", and housed the Scepter after he acquired it. This would also imply that the White Mantle knew about the scepter and what it was for, and implies even further that the Mursaat were trying to get their hands on it.

Now, why would the Mursaat be trying to get the Scepter? Surely they couldn't destroy it, not even Glint could destroy it, only re-locate it. This means they were probably planning on using it themselves. If they could control Abbaddon's minions, they would surely be as Gods themselves.

Oh, and yes, I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist, hehe.

Damn, we should get together and try write some lore sometime

Very nice theory, though you forget that the mantle actually did hold the Scepter at one point (we stole it from them remember?) and they were actually guarding it. So there goes your theory that it was in Kessex peak (sorry to bust it, it was really good)

Though I do agree, maybe the Mursaat wanted to harness the titans, and were guarding the door so that no one else could it open it until they themselves had the Scepter. hmm...

just made me think... now (after fall of Abaddon) they actually have a chance to take control of the titans, as the mindless automatons the titans (not the titan generals) were, they only obeyed the weilder of the scepter. though i am sure that Abaddon could overrule the one weilding it. but now that he is out of the picture... maybe the Mursaat wil try get the scepter?

This theory completely contradict my old one btw.. :P we can't be right all the time can we?

Hand of Ruin · Dec 26, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Well, as far as abaddon's mouth is concerned, I don't believe that place is directly influenced by abaddon, but rather may be some relic from his reign as a member of the six gods. The titans are sealed in there and roam freely, and no longer serve abaddon, but were probably a creation of his. (Hence the presence of titans in the ROT)

This is why the scepter could control them, because they no longer had any real will to serve.

The Mursaat are unconnected to abaddon, and really serve their own ends. They simply knew the titans were a huge threat, and wanted to keep them safely sealed away. The Lich wanted to use the Titans to fuel his conquests, so naturally this put him in conflict with the Mursaat and the white mantle.

That's how I see things anyways.

arcanemacabre · Dec 26, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_

Very nice theory, though you forget that the mantle actually did hold the Scepter at one point (we stole it from them remember?) and they were actually guarding it. So there goes your theory that it was in Kessex peak (sorry to bust it, it was really good)

Though I do agree, maybe the Mursaat wanted to harness the titans, and were guarding the door so that no one else could it open it until they themselves had the Scepter. hmm...

Aw dang! You're right, I forgot about that part. Though isn't it true that they had just recently recovered the scepter before we (the unsung heroes) stole it? Anyway, I guess you could say they were guarding it to keep it safe, or perhaps trying to organize transport to the Mursaat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_

just made me think... now (after fall of Abaddon) they actually have a chance to take control of the titans, as the mindless automatons the titans (not the titan generals) were, they only obeyed the weilder of the scepter. though i am sure that Abaddon could overrule the one weilding it. but now that he is out of the picture... maybe the Mursaat wil try get the scepter?

That now has me thinking... What about *SPOILERS* Kormir? Would she now have full control of the titans, as well as the other minions of Abbaddon? She wouldn't be able to control the Margonites, as I believe they are fully aware of their actions, and pledged alleigence(sp?) to Abbaddon.

Of course, if Abbaddon controlled both the Lich and the Titans, why would the Lich need the scepter in the first place? That has me stumped... Maybe the Titans are simply "tools of the gods", avenging angels of sorts, and the only way to force their hands would be to either have the Scepter of Orr, since it's origin is in Arah, city of the gods, or to be a God.

scrinner · Dec 27, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Abaddon was sealed and doesnt have direct influence in the real world, thats why the lich required the staff and btw.. do remember that the mursaat are now extinct due to the titans being unleashed.

Maria Moon · Dec 27, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

SPOILER

well i think i go for the sid ethat is saying that abbadon once had power of the titans, but now does not, that is afterall why the sceptor of orr is so important, along with its twin the staff of mists, which in a quest u have to "rescue" it before the margonnites manage to optain it so as to use it for there own uses, could this possibly be a plan to take control of the titans?

and as for ( i mention her yet again) she has done her little job, helped fufill the prophecy and is now busy lying around in some little cave with 100's of forgotten doing her bidding and with the scepter of orr nice and cosy in here little cave,..while the rest of the world is in chaos, ( sorry just really have issues with glint lazy old dragon) but i suppose its not her problem shes done wat she was meant to do in the first place i suppose. it would just have helped alot if espcially in night fall if glint had intervined(sp) but o well that if for another place another thread sorry just really had to say that.

but just to get the topic back ons its tracks, did anyone really ever answer the main question of why the 1 bridge places a 'supposed part of importance" in and why it looks the same with both prophecies and night fall?

griffinz · Dec 27, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria Moon

SPOILER
but just to get the topic back ons its tracks, did anyone really ever answer the main question of why the 1 bridge places a 'supposed part of importance" in and why it looks the same with both prophecies and night fall?

Lol thank you Maria, well, some people did give theories, but I suppose it is an unanswered question, so I gave up trying to discuss it. But all these lore people are writing out are great to read.

Okay summing part of this up, I think it is safe to say that the Mursaat were not 'good', even though they fought against the titans. They are their own race, and they FEARED the titans, because they know that Titans will be their doom. Remember when you do Defend Droknor's Forge Quest? In mineral springs, you see Mursaat corpses everywhere! They knew about the Flameseeker Prophecies, and part of it is probabaly about their own destruction, not by the 'chosen', but by the Titans. They probabaly knew that the chosen would unleash the Titans against them.

But the question is: Do the Mursaat know about Abaddon? Or do they only know about the Flameseeker Propheces?

The Scepter of Orr... uhmm, *SPOILER*, well concerning the scepter of Orr, remember the undead lich is vizier khibron, tainted by the Demon "Terick", as shown by a quest in the Realm of Torment. Why did Terick make the vizier evil?because Abaddon wished to bring destruction to Orr, just as how he ordered the Titans to taint the Charr into destroying ascalon.

These are facts, I got them from wiki.

Following that story, Charr destroyed Ascalon, Khibron destroyed Orr? What about Kryta??? They can't do it, it is protected by the white mantle and the mursaat. and now it all goes back to the flameseeker prophecies. The Vizier manipulated the players to unleash the titans on the mursaat. That way Abaddon can destroy Tyria.

Andrew_ · Dec 27, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

*SPOILERS*

All this is very interesting, but again, we find it leading back to the Flameseeker Prophecies, and invariably Glint herself. now what was foretold exactly? we know it mentioned Ascalon being decimated by charr, Rurik dying, the lich and the chosen freeing the titans, and the Lich being killed by the chosen. so here's my little guess as to the words of Glint, some 800 years ago, ahem:

"During the days of war, a greater threat will come, fire-worshippers from the north. They will rend and tear the land til it is naught but dust, but will eventually be halted in Orr, with magic from the tormented realm itself, and defeated by the unseen ones in Kryta. The Chosen will be led by one of royal blood. His courage and bravery will be matched only by his self-sacrifice, to let the chosen pass through the gate of frost into the lands of Kryta. All this time the chosen will come ever closer to ascension, in the place where margonites once blasphemed the true god's names. The flameseeker will aid them, and they shall not know of his true aims.
The chosen will rise up with their dwarven brothers, and come down upon the unseen ones and their followers like cleansing fire from the heavens. Only then will the door be opened, the door that will release the abominations from torment, controlled by the Scepter of Orr. Though the flameseeker will not revel in victory for long, as the Chosen will exact a swift revenge, and send him to his master's domain, never to enter the mortal realm again"

That's all specualtion on my part, but someone posted earlier that the titans were IN the volcano, that is not correct. the PORTAL to the domain of anguish (where the titans come from) was in the volcano. i think that Glint told parts of the prophecy to some of the people concerned, just enough to make them fulfil their role. ie. the Lich didn't know of his defeat, he only knew up to the part where the door was opened. i think the Mursaat didn't know the part where they were defeated too. either way, I would like to know the exact prophecy.

griffinz · Dec 28, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

I like how you interpret the Flameseeker Prophecies. It makes great sense, although, it'd be better if there's something there for us to guess at.

You sort of concluded our discussion

What's our next question concerning Mursaat and Abaddon?

Let's see, The Foundry of Failed Foundations... how does that relate to Komalie again?

Feme Assassin · Dec 28, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

ok i will try to answer some questions

margonites worshiped all the 6 gods including abaddon they travelled by ship in crystal desert by the time it was still a sea and they tried to achieve ascension they failed and they turned to abaddon they hated the other gods and started destroying their temples

seers are seers no more information except that they are in a war with mursaats

mursaats they are in war with seers and they were trying to keep the komali door closed cause they were afraid of the titans or they wwanted to save the whole world so the gods would be gratefull to them

abaddon couldnt control the world from his domain so he managed through a spirit that we can find in realm of torment(i cant remember its name)
to control the vizier and with the scepter of orr realease the titans so they could destroy the world or even open a door to the torment so he could escape

someone said that mursaat wantd the scepter ok lets say they wanted it but in my opinion to destroy it so no one could control the titans and not use it against the world or god themselves

Feme Assassin · Dec 28, 2006, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffinz

I like how you interpret the Flameseeker Prophecies. It makes great sense, although, it'd be better if there's something there for us to guess at.

You sort of concluded our discussion

What's our next question concerning Mursaat and Abaddon?

Let's see, The Foundry of Failed Foundations... how does that relate to Komalie again?

maybe komalie its another exit from foundry

draxynnic · Dec 30, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feme Assassin

maybe komalie its another exit from foundry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurus Trevess(SPOILER)

Inside the Foundry is the Door of Komalie... a passage into the realm of the living. Countless Titans wander these halls. They are sick, twisted creatures formed from tormented souls.

Looks pretty convincing to me

.

I suspect Andrew's view of the Prophecies are probably what Glint saw, but not what was actually put out. The real Prophecies are probably hidden deep within layers of riddles, mostly up to the interpretation of the reader. Consider: the Lich seemed pretty certain he was going to win, even though, according to Glint, the Prophecies weren't complete until after the Lich was destroyed. It could be that he simply thought he'd be able to defy the finishing of the Prophecies while following the rest, but I suspect the Prophecies are actually written in such a way as to imply that the Lich had at least a good chance of winning.

Heck, the Prophecies may actually have been intended as a subtle trap to catch anyone seeking to release the Titans. Write the Prophecies (at least the start therof) in vague enough terms that any would-be Titan-controller would assume that it speaks of them, then make the rest a convincing formula of how to release them - one that actually works in order to avoid the megalomaniac from evading the trap but doing his or her own research, but which makes sure said megalomaniac follows a path that Glint can counter rather than finding their own path that she can't.

Some Guru Named Kai · Dec 30, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Since the Door of Komalie (portal to the titans and possibly Realm of Torment) was title "Abaddon's Mouth" as a mission. The answer for the bridge could simply be, Abaddon saw the bridge design the Mursaat used and really liked it, therefore, paying a few Mursaat contractors to build one for him. d=

As for the Margonites, they only worshipped 1 god, "the fallen god" I think we all know that's Abaddon.

(Reference from page 24 from the Nightfall manuscript)

kopacha · Jan 02, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

One Thing:
The Lich is a follower of Abaddon.
The Mursaat wanted to stop the Lich because of the Flameseeker Prophecy.
Sooo... All I can say is that the Mursaat if followers of Abaddon wouldn't give opposition to the Lich. But they did which can make thing of 2 things:
1. The Mursaat are exiled Margonites.
2. The Margonites are corrupted Mursaat.

This is just my opinion, tho. I can only state this clearly:
Mursaat and Margonites look pretty much the same.
Jade Armours are like miniatures of Abaddon.

Everything just makes me want to ask more questions...
This might not reach ANet's ears, but... Why not make a Elite Mission in Tyria to finish the Mursaat's demise as it was stated in the Flameseeker Prophecies...
Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top

Lord-UWR · Jan 04, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Why Do You All Spell It Abbaddon?

Its Abaddon, With One "b" Not Two!!! Lol

gilgameshx · Jan 04, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord-UWR

Why Do You All Spell It Abbaddon?

Its Abaddon, With One "d" Not Two!!! Lol

lol, it's Abaddon with 2 d's not 1 d and 1 b not 2 b's.

Back to the subject, I think the Mursaat were once followers of Abaddon or the unnamed god that Abaddon destroyed or supplanted as mentioned from Apostate (The Margonite quest in Gate of Fear). And/or the Titans were probably replacements for the Mursaat instead and maybe that's why the Mursaat sealed the Door of Komalie.

The Mursaat don't have fins like the Margonites do. It's strange that we don't see one Mursaat in the Realm of Torment.

Feme Assassin · Jan 05, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

come on guys why mursaats and seers and margonites must be from the same race they are totaly different races.Someone will say hey mursaat and seers have 4 hands and they float over the ground and then i will say to him hey man and dwarves have 2 hands and they both walk on the ground that makes them come from the same race?
Its completely pointless mursaat seers and margonites are from different races end of story

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 05, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feme Assassin

come on guys why mursaats and seers and margonites must be from the same race they are totaly different races.Someone will say hey mursaat and seers have 4 hands and they float over the ground and then i will say to him hey man and dwarves have 2 hands and they both walk on the ground that makes them come from the same race?
Its completely pointless mursaat seers and margonites are from different races end of story

Have you not noticed the Jades look like Abaddon and the Margonites? And yes the general look of Mursaat and Margonites look very similar, Seers also but less so. And the fact Mursaat/Margonite Architechure are very similar.

A snow wolf and a normal Wolf are near identical, yes there not the same race but they Evoled from that same gene pool, Why cant Mursaat and Margonites therefore originate from a common Ancestor? However Ignoring this possible explanation due to the following:

And it Appears that Margonites are Created by Abaddon, they are not a natural creature, As seen by Varesh becoming a Margonite So presumably this explains why The Margonite on the Ship that was being hunted by the Forgotten is called 'First of the margonites' Evidently this was the 1st person/creature to be turned into a margonite. it is then possible the Mursaat looking Margonites were once infact Mursaats that were transformed by Abaddon.

Feme Assassin · Jan 05, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Ok snow wolf and the normal one may be from the same gene pool.And mursaat and margonites may be from the same pool too you got a point there.

But no way seers are from the same gene pool as mursaat and maybe margonites were mursaats and abaddon transformed them into the things they are now

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 05, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Not that i diagree to them not being seperate species (because i think Seers are a seperate species) but there are still possiblitys that they could be:

Eg Perhaps they could be Ascended Mursaat that have sided with the 5 Gods of Tryia, The Complete opposite of the margonites.

They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.

They could be the gw version of having different Ethnicitys of the same species.

draxynnic · Jan 08, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.

That's a disturbing thought, since the Seers and Mursaat seemed determined to wipe each other out. Did the Seers steal the bedsheets one too many times or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avon from Blake's 7, possibly slightly misquoted

"You can have war between empires and war between planets, but if you have war between the sexes, eventually you run out of people"